(for part 1, see here)
And no, this is not the promised Part II - that will be coming (hopefully!) soon. This is my thoughts on the Biblical nature of my theory of eternity.
Talking to Eric (and Emily and Adam) around the campfire when we camped in (September? October? November? I can't remember...), we considered (briefly) my notion of eternity - which is to say, I said something about it with respect to our state in Heaven, and Eric said he thought that we were creatures of time and could not live without it. That got me to thinking... how scriptural was my idea, anyway? Unlike most of my ideas, which I heavily scrutinize before propounding, I had only briefly considered this one before telling it to you all (kind of like my "chronological snobbery" idea... they get on here faster that way :-)). Sidenote: I don't think you are 'afraid,' but I'll tell you anyway- don't be afraid to poke holes in these ideas of mine!)
First, definitions of eternity:
Eternity: infinite time, implies endless or immeasurable time
So there's still time involved. Yep. But see
Infinity: Unlimited extent of something, boundlessness; above, beyond, and/or different than finite (transfinite)
(So actually I'm going to contradict myself a bit :-). The point I made about infinity in Eternity is still valid - but from a mathematical perspective only. From an English perspective, I'm using infinity to back myself up :-).)
So Eternity = unlimited extent of time; above, beyond and/or different than time (which is finite), immeasurable time... rather sounds like what I said in part I, does it not?
Then we move on to 'okay, so the English word means what you say. So what? Is that what the Bible meant or just a translation thing?' The closest I can do to answer that is give you the Hebrew word and Greek words translated 'eternity:'
Hebrew - quedmah: aforetime, ancient time, before, eternal
Greek - aion: eternal, forevermore, without end
aidios: enduring, eternal, everlasting
aionios: eternal, forever, everlasting, perpetual
All the Greek ones are derived from aei, which roughly means continued (indefinite) duration
Of course, all of these include eternal as part of their definitions. However, I included them because of the other words... forever (for everlasting time, for eternity), everlasting (continuing indefinitely or for a long period of time), etc. In other words, the other definitions/translations of these words have meanings similar to eternity, so it is likely that the writers meant eternity when they chose to use those words. In addition, the words used for 'eternal' as applied to our future state in Heaven also are applied to God- so in other words, if what I say is true about God, it is also true about us. This, of what I said, most directly applies to Eric's point mentioned earlier. For instance, Heb 8:14 "...the eternal Spirit..." or 1 Pet. 5:10 "...His eternal glory..." are the same word as is used plentifully throughout the New Testament to refer to our eternal life (most commonly) or our eternal inheritance, glory, etc.
What are your thoughts?
1 comment:
a) Giving an idea without heavy scrutiny isn't that bad; besides, that gives us the chance to poke holes. ^_^ Also, wasn't it in your personality thing that "You reach conclusions without being swayed by external influence and defend your conclusions no matter how fierce the counterarguments might be." Maybe when you do less heavy scrutiny, we feel less "afraid" to poke holes. ^_^
Not like it bothers me--I'll attack any other argument that I disagree with--I just don't usually disagree(and some I don't disagree with). ^_^
b) Anyway...
Technically, eternity still makes sense. Yes, it is infinite time, but after an extent, time loses its meaning. If you look at it this way: there as once a group of scientists trying to figure out if we were in the middle of the universe. They worked on Doppler shift equations, trying to figure out if the red-shifted/blue-shifted galaxies could tell us where we were. They ran across this problem: the further galaxies were from the center, the faster they moved. One would think that this makes the question easier, but it doesn't--think of this: if we are at the very outside, we will be moving away from the rest of the universe faster than they are following, thus, it would look like they were all moving away. If we were in the middle, we would be moving faster then the ones towards the center, but slower than the ones at the end. Thus, it would appear that most galaxies are moving away from us. So on, so forth. Basically, it looses meaning whether we are at the beginning, end, or middle, because there are no apparent markers.
c) So in one sense, there is no time(time has not meaning). In another sense, there is time. For example, we will know that in some point in the past, we had sin; we know that it will not be in the future or that present.
d) However, I think it is safe to say that God is outside of time. 1) Because He has no beginning and no end, He was before time could be counted, and He will be infinitely long after time as a measurement ends.
TOT(time-out-thought)) And what is time? A measurement of passage, right? By definition, you cannot measure the eternal.
2) Because He is omnipotent, He can operate on whatever area of time He chooses, so He is not bound by the restraints of being in time.
And a couple more reasons, which I forgot. ^_^
I also forgot my point. I started out defending one thing, and that led to another...and ended up saying something pretty close to what you said. *Sigh* But I guess you have a couple of my thoughts right there.
Would you mind stating your revised point a little more clearly for my inept mind, please? ^_^ I might be able to offer a counterargument if I knew what I was arguing against.
Then again, you asked for "What are your thoughts?"....and I kinda gave those. Ah, well.
--Josiah C.
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